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That was more like the response i was looking for, as far as what is
takes to close the road and the logistics behind it. I never really brought up safety, just that
sprints would flow better and help with the antsyness of waiting for
that 200m mark.
Im just trying to brainstorm some sort of change that could occur since
OBRA is facing a consistent problem so far this year. I know im not the
only one wishing for the road to open up earlier than it does, im just the only one willing to speak up. I was
just seeing if it was logistically possible and if so would it be considered by the race organizers to extend the finish stretch.
From: mike.murray@obra.org
To: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:03:11 -0700
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sprint
Message
Closing a
road is not so easy to do and the further out the closure is the harder it gets
... exponentially. The difficult thing is dependably know when the
oncoming field will be there and getting the cars stopped well ahead of
that. For a 200 m closure that can generally be done by 1 or 2 people with
a stop paddle and loud voices. Further out requires more forethought,
radios, more people, etc. A wider finish does not necessarily make a safer
finish unless the road gets so wide that there is more space then needed for the
field. Even then it does work all that well as demonstrated by frequent
finish sprint crashes at PIR.
Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From:
obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of
G Magnus
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 18:28 PM
To:
obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat]
Sprint
So I read through all the OBRA Rules and there is
nothing about the distance from the finish that the road can be fully opened
up...OBRA rules state:
15.1.1- Course design -A road course will be designed
and implemented with the safety of the riders foremost. The finish will be
wide enough for the largest field expected.
It will be as straight as possible, with an adequate
run out. The finish line will be a conspicuous line on the road.
If the course is not a circuit, signs will also be
placed marking 200 meters and 1 kilometer before the finish.
Obviously we have some road races where we never get
the full road for varied reasons. Kenji, Candi, Mike can you
shed some light on the traditional 200m full road
sprint?
Totally off this topic but interesting
none the less: Did you know that if you are in dead heat finish for 1st place
in a race that you would re-ride the last portion of the race to
determine a winner? Obra rules 10.3
~Gregg
From: bikexcr@hotmail.com
To: ratliffb@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 31 Mar
2008 18:11:54 -0700
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat]
Sprint
Dont forget every crit as well. We get the
full road for the entire race and sprint there and things flow perfectly
fine as well.
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:09:27 -0700
From: ratliffb@gmail.com
To:
bikexcr@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sprint
CC:
obra@list.obra.org
Good point. I don't think I have enough
experience to answer it. This is my first full season racing and
I've only done PIR three times in tiny fields (11-16 riders)
late last summer.
On 3/31/08, r r
wrote:
Alas,
Thank you Brian for at least
getting back on topic. Somehow the topic turned into the telephone game,
and turned into a finger pointing contest.
The main point of the
original email was, why not open up the road earlier, if it does not
violate any sort of county permit code that must be followed in order to
have the race put on.
But, in with the road opened earlier, does
not mean everyone will have the ability to move around. Take PIR for
example. See how nicely the sprints work there with the nice wide open
road. Sprints work there how they are suppose to work. And in the
end, the true sprinters and stronger riders still emerge and the
peleton is still strung out despite optimal space for everyoen and their
grandmother to move around in. I guess thats what i am getting at.
Everyone likes a course thats nice and wide open, so why purposely have
it tighter during the most chaotic time, that is if it does not violate
permit code for hosting the race.
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:46:38 -0700
From: ratliffb@gmail.com
To: srh148@yahoo.com
CC: jeff.nelson@yakima.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject:
Re: [OBRA Chat] Sprint
Just to clear up some misunderstandings
starting to form, for the sake of the peanut gallery
here...
Nobody from any team was riding four abreast "blocking"
the pack, so I've been told. Portland Velo had 4 guys in the
race, and towards the end of the race, they were, all four, near the
front of the peloton, working to try to lead out a sprinter to the
finish. There was no Portland Velo breakaway, so I understand,
that they would be blocking for. I believe that Mr. Nelson
merely found himself in the back half of a slow moving peloton, unable
to move up, and saw a couple Portland Velo jerseys of guys who were
smart enough to make the move up the front of the pack early so they
could contest the finish. I believe they put one man in the top
10 - not terrible for a Cat5 team still learning team tactics.
It is well known that it is difficult to move around in
the pack on the Piece of Cake course. Myself, racing in the 4's,
I had to start making my move about 10 miles from the finish in order
to complete it by the two miles to go mark. Then I sat near the
front, sucking wind, for the last couple miles so I could have a shot
at a good finish. It's just racing is all.
So, to
summarize: No breakaway. No blocking. Just a frustrated
racer who didn't make the move to the front of the peloton early
enough to contest the finish.
To move this thread back
on the original topic; I have sometimes wondered myself why the road
didn't open up sooner than 200m. Particularly at Banana Belt, by
the time 200m came up, the sprinters had already picked their lines
and opening up the other lane had no real affect. On the other
hand, I can see that perhaps the opening of both lanes at 200m is
meant as a pure safety matter, and opening the lane up sooner
would eliminate the safety of having extra room to maneuver in a sprint.
Say the lane opened at 500m, what would happen with a 50+ person peloton? Why, everyone and their Grandma would move up around the side of the peloton to get to the front and fill the road just the same
and their would be no safety benefit at all. The way it is
now, nobody seriously contesting the sprint uses the newly opened lane
(takes too long to move across the road after the sprint has started),
so the open lane acts as a safety buffer in case someone doesn't hold
their line. If there is a crash at the finish, it provides an
escape route to get around.
On 3/31/08, STEVEN R HOLLAND wrote:
I was in a cat 3 race many years ago in the Seattle area. One
team staged in the front. Once the race started, they sent two
riders up the road and put 4 guys across the road blocking the road.
They obviously had this planned. By the time some of us forced our
way up to the front......it was to late...the two riders were gone.
IMO you should never have 4 riders on the front [especially
from one team] just soft peddling. If you do not want to race,
move over so others can. This happens often in all fields. Why sit
on the front? I never understand this. What does this
accomplish, unless you are doing it for the sole purpose of blocking
others from racing?
Ty, I'm sure those other 53 riders would have been happy to
"take their turn at the front" if your fellas would have let
them Why force others to make aggressive moves just to get
by and race?
Steve [I'd rather attack than sit in] Holland
Ty Lambert
wrote:
If 53
other riders could not overcome 4 riders from a particular
team,
perhaps you are in the correct field.
Stop sucking
wheels and start taking your turn at the front.
Ty
Lambert
Portland Velo
-----Original
Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
On
Behalf Of Matthew Klahn
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 1:58
PM
To: Jerald M Powell
Cc: obra@list.obra.org;
Jeff
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sprint
Physically pushing
your way through Cat. 5 riders is almost certainly
dangerous
(especially in early season races), and it is unsafe,
irresponsible and unsporting for a team to try this. If you
have a
large enough team to block in this way, and you can't
lead a rider out
to win a sprint, then perhaps you should
rethink your training, etc. I
think Jeff's comments are
spot-on; I didn't race yesterday (and would
not have been in
this category, anyway), but a friend who finished
top-10 in
this race related how this went down in yesterday's sprint
finish. Seems like PV riders could stand to learn some real
team
tactics rather than employ the ones that seem to have
been used the
last two years (!) at PoC.
Just another
reason to get out of the Cat. 4/5 ASAP,
IMO.
Matthew
On Mar 31, 2008, at 1:52 PM, Jerald M
Powell wrote:
> Jeff... "unsafe" might be over cooking
it a bit. "Unwise", or
> "Ineffective" is probably a fair
criticism. "Blocking" by plugging up
> the road, firstly,
doesn't work very well because any physical rider
>
accustomed to a bit of shoulder to hip contact is capable of
riding
> through it (even if it risks criticism for
dangerous riding).
> secondly, it gains no particular
tactical advantage and in fact
> requires just as much
energy from the "blocker" as it does from the
>
"blockee".
>
> Jerry
>
> On Mar 31, 2008,
at 10:52 AM, Jeff wrote:
>> I raced in the Cat 5 race and
would say that the problem with antsy
>> riders and
unsafe riding started as soon as Portland Velo riders
>>
began boxing the group on the second lap. It made the race
unsafe
>> and not fun. The first lap was good, riders
taking turns pulling and
>> a safe
peleton.
>>
>> Kudo's to all Cat 5 riders for
keeping the rubber side down despite
>> the unsafe
tactics of others.
>
>
>
>
> Jerry
Powell
> USAC Level 1 Coach
> 1926 SW Madison
St
> Portland, OR 97205
>
> 503 222 7173
>
503 799 7823 (cellular)
>
> jpowell@spiritone.com
>
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
> OBRA
mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>
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