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Good point. I don't think I have enough experience to answer it. This is
my first full season racing and I've only done PIR three times in tiny
fields (11-16 riders) late last summer.
On 3/31/08, r r wrote:
>
> Alas,
>
> Thank you Brian for at least getting back on topic. Somehow the topic
> turned into the telephone game, and turned into a finger pointing contest.
>
> The main point of the original email was, why not open up the road
> earlier, if it does not violate any sort of county permit code that must be
> followed in order to have the race put on.
>
> But, in with the road opened earlier, does not mean everyone will have the
> ability to move around. Take PIR for example. See how nicely the sprints
> work there with the nice wide open road. Sprints work there how they are
> suppose to work. And in the end, the true sprinters and stronger riders
> still emerge and the peleton is still strung out despite optimal space for
> everyoen and their grandmother to move around in. I guess thats what i am
> getting at. Everyone likes a course thats nice and wide open, so why
> purposely have it tighter during the most chaotic time, that is if it does
> not violate permit code for hosting the race.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:46:38 -0700
> From: ratliffb@gmail.com
> To: srh148@yahoo.com
> CC: jeff.nelson@yakima.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sprint
>
> Just to clear up some misunderstandings starting to form, for the sake of
> the peanut gallery here...
>
> Nobody from any team was riding four abreast "blocking" the pack, so I've
> been told. Portland Velo had 4 guys in the race, and towards the end of the
> race, they were, all four, near the front of the peloton, working to try to
> lead out a sprinter to the finish. There was no Portland Velo breakaway, so
> I understand, that they would be blocking for. I believe that Mr. Nelson
> merely found himself in the back half of a slow moving peloton, unable to
> move up, and saw a couple Portland Velo jerseys of guys who were smart
> enough to make the move up the front of the pack early so they could contest
> the finish. I believe they put one man in the top 10 - not terrible for a
> Cat5 team still learning team tactics.
>
> It is well known that it is difficult to move around in the pack on the
> Piece of Cake course. Myself, racing in the 4's, I had to start making my
> move about 10 miles from the finish in order to complete it by the two miles
> to go mark. Then I sat near the front, sucking wind, for the last couple
> miles so I could have a shot at a good finish. It's just racing is all.
>
> So, to summarize: No breakaway. No blocking. Just a frustrated racer who
> didn't make the move to the front of the peloton early enough to contest the
> finish.
>
> To move this thread back on the original topic; I have sometimes wondered
> myself why the road didn't open up sooner than 200m. Particularly at Banana
> Belt, by the time 200m came up, the sprinters had already picked their lines
> and opening up the other lane had no real affect. On the other hand, I can
> see that perhaps the opening of both lanes at 200m is meant as a pure safety
> matter, and opening the lane up sooner
> would eliminate the safety of having extra room to maneuver in a sprint.
>
> Say the lane opened at 500m, what would happen with a 50+ person peloton? Why, everyone and their Grandma would move up around the side of the peloton to get to the front and fill the road just the same
> and their would be no safety benefit at all. The way it is now, nobody
> seriously contesting the sprint uses the newly opened lane (takes too long
> to move across the road after the sprint has started), so the open lane acts
> as a safety buffer in case someone doesn't hold their line. If there is a
> crash at the finish, it provides an escape route to get around.
>
>
> On 3/31/08, *STEVEN R HOLLAND* wrote:
>
> I was in a cat 3 race many years ago in the Seattle area. One team staged
> in the front. Once the race started, they sent two riders up the road and
> put 4 guys across the road blocking the road. They obviously had this
> planned. By the time some of us forced our way up to the front......it was
> to late...the two riders were gone.
>
> IMO you should never have 4 riders on the front [especially from one
> team] just soft peddling. If you do not want to race, move over so others
> can. This happens often in all fields. Why sit on the front? I never
> understand this. What does this accomplish, unless you are doing it for the
> sole purpose of blocking others from racing?
>
> Ty, I'm sure those other 53 riders would have been happy to "take their
> turn at the front" if your fellas would have let them Why force others to
> make aggressive moves just to get by and race?
>
> Steve [I'd rather attack than sit in] Holland
>
>
>
> *Ty Lambert * wrote:
>
> If 53 other riders could not overcome 4 riders from a particular team,
> perhaps you are in the correct field.
> Stop sucking wheels and start taking your turn at the front.
>
> Ty Lambert
> Portland Velo
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Matthew Klahn
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 1:58 PM
> To: Jerald M Powell
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org; Jeff
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sprint
>
> Physically pushing your way through Cat. 5 riders is almost certainly
> dangerous (especially in early season races), and it is unsafe,
> irresponsible and unsporting for a team to try this. If you have a
> large enough team to block in this way, and you can't lead a rider out
> to win a sprint, then perhaps you should rethink your training, etc. I
> think Jeff's comments are spot-on; I didn't race yesterday (and would
> not have been in this category, anyway), but a friend who finished
> top-10 in this race related how this went down in yesterday's sprint
> finish. Seems like PV riders could stand to learn some real team
> tactics rather than employ the ones that seem to have been used the
> last two years (!) at PoC.
>
> Just another reason to get out of the Cat. 4/5 ASAP, IMO.
>
> Matthew
>
> On Mar 31, 2008, at 1:52 PM, Jerald M Powell wrote:
>
> > Jeff... "unsafe" might be over cooking it a bit. "Unwise", or
> > "Ineffective" is probably a fair criticism. "Blocking" by plugging up
> > the road, firstly, doesn't work very well because any physical rider
> > accustomed to a bit of shoulder to hip contact is capable of riding
> > through it (even if it risks criticism for dangerous riding).
> > secondly, it gains no particular tactical advantage and in fact
> > requires just as much energy from the "blocker" as it does from the
> > "blockee".
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> > On Mar 31, 2008, at 10:52 AM, Jeff wrote:
> >> I raced in the Cat 5 race and would say that the problem with antsy
> >> riders and unsafe riding started as soon as Portland Velo riders
> >> began boxing the group on the second lap. It made the race unsafe
> >> and not fun. The first lap was good, riders taking turns pulling and
> >> a safe peleton.
> >>
> >> Kudo's to all Cat 5 riders for keeping the rubber side down despite
> >> the unsafe tactics of others.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jerry Powell
> > USAC Level 1 Coach
> > 1926 SW Madison St
> > Portland, OR 97205
> >
> > 503 222 7173
> > 503 799 7823 (cellular)
> >
> > jpowell@spiritone.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
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>
>
> STEVEN R HOLLAND
> 17203 SE 30TH ST
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