| Subject: | RE: Sellwood Bridge Etiquette |
| Date: | 04/29/2004 03:42 AM |
| From: | Mark Jenkins |
|
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C42E14.33352100 Content-Type: text/plain I've commuted across the Sellwood Bridge for 7 years. Formerly, there were Bikes Walk signs, and I'm not even sure when they disappeared. It's interesting that there will be again, but I can count on one hand the number of bikers I actually saw walking when the signs were up. Similarly, I can count on the other the even slightly irritable encounters I've had with walkers or riders on the bridge. Most people who use the bridge regularly realize the difficulties of the walkway, and most deal with it in relative good faith. I'm not sure regulation and traffic control widgets are needed, though a better path and roadway would be nice. The inevitable long-term closure of the bridge for that work will not. I'm a good rider, but I will not use that bridge roadway. I have tried it on occasion and I find it to be extremely dangerous. No shoulders, high curb, bad surface, high speeds, heavy traffic, narrow lanes. Frankly, I think that the police realize that the bridge is a) not ideal; b) a primary E-W commuting route for pedestrians and bikers. I've encountered police while riding on the bridge on numerous occasions and have never received so much as a warning. The signs make adjudicating ped/bike encounters an easier matter for police and that doesn't seem to me a big deal in this particular case. Generally, I've found that etiquette is best handled by making way for downhill bike traffic, though I think Scott McMillan's earlier comment pretty much sums it up. -----Original Message----- From: markjgi-@yahoo.com [mailto:markjgi-@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:17 AM To: ob-@topica.com Subject: [OBRA Chat] Sellwood Bridge Etiquette Sellwood Bridge is controlled by Multnomah County. Laws are enforced on it by Portland Police. The biker walk signs were recently put up b/c county counsel (i.e. the we don't wanna get sued department) was concerned that there could/would be a collision on this seriously undersized path. I've been thinking about just riding on the road way, which is not my favorite choice, but for a faster rider is not unreasonable. Think about how this cuts in half the loop which has been created for the recreational riders who can ride the east side and west side bike esplanades, but now must walk across the bridge to connect the two. Folks who are unhappy with the change to the Sellwood Bridge can write to Matt Larsen, the Multnomah county bike/ped guy. He was in favor of bikers being allowed to ride, but county counsel said no. His email is: matthew.-@co.multnomah.or.us <mailto:matthew.-@co.multnomah.or.us> Mark Ginsberg "G. Hill" <nwm-@yahoo.com> wrote: =========================================================== Empower your Team with Remote Access. GoToMyPC Pro provides your organization with instant remote access to email,files, applications and network resources in real time. FREE TRIAL: http://click.topica.com/caab6auaVxiDpa2k2qEa/ ExpertCity =========================================================== It's against the law to ride your bike on the sidewalk of the Sellwood Bridge. It is posted at the bridge by Portland Police that you have to walk you bike across. -----Original Message----- From: MARTEL,MATT (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:matt_m-@hp.com] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 8:52 AM To: 'nate-@hotmail.com'; ob-@topica.com Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Sellwood Bridge Etiquette =========================================================== Graduate in less than 13 months with AIU's Online virtual campus. Classrooms and student service as close as your computer. Highly accredited, study anytime - anywhere. http://click.topica.com/caab6anaVxiDpa7W2q8a/ AIU =========================================================== I think you are allowed to push them in the river! :) -----Original Message----- From: nate-@hotmail.com [mailto:nate-@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 8:14 AM To: ob-@topica.com Subject: [OBRA Chat] Sellwood Bridge Etiquette =========================================================== Sign up to get FREE information from leading colleges! Compare degrees, admissions, financial aid and more. Study your career education options at Collegeinformation.info. http://click.topica.com/caab8K7aVxiDpa5fErIa/ College Info =========================================================== What is the etiquette when you encounter another cyclist while crossing the Sellwood bridge using the sidewalk? I've always thought that the cyclist who has already crested the middle of the bridge (regardless of direction) and is heading down has the right of way and the uphill cyclist should slow/stop and move as close to the rail as possible. What do you think? Is there a written or an unwritten rule? Nate =========================================================== Empower your Team with Remote Access. GoToMyPC Pro provides your organization with instant remote access to email,files, applications and network resources in real time. FREE TRIAL: http://click.topica.com/caab6auaVxiDpa5fErIf/ ExpertCity =========================================================== To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com. To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com =========================================================== Let University of Phoenix make 2004 your year. Evening, weekend or FlexNetR classes - over 130 locations. Look into our programs and get the degree that gets you going! http://click.topica.com/caab6aBaVxiDpa7W2q8f/ UOP =========================================================== To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com. To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com =========================================================== $6.95 .com Domain Name Sale! Limited Time! ICANN Accredited GoDaddy! http://click.topica.com/caab8LhaVxiDpa2k2qEf/ GoDaddy =========================================================== To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com. To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org To unsubscribe send to Mark J. Ginsberg Attorney At Law 1001 SW 5th Ave., Ste. 1900 Portland, OR 97204 (503) 542-3000 Fax (503) 295-3720 markjgi-@yahoo.com <mailto:markjgi-@yahoo.com> _____ Do you Yahoo!? Win <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/hotjobs/hotjobs_mail_signature_f ooter_textlink/evt=23983/*http:/hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs ------_=_NextPart_001_01C42E14.33352100 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=US-ASCII"> <meta name=ProgId content=Word.Document> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 10"> <meta name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 10"> <link rel=File-List href="cid:fileli-@01C42DD8.78532FC0"> <link rel=Edit-Time-Data href="cid:editda-@01C42DD8.78532FC0"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceType"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceName"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"/> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:SpellingState>Clean</w:SpellingState> <w:GrammarState>Clean</w:GrammarState> <w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind> <w:EnvelopeVis/> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:553679495 -2147483648 8 0 66047 0;} @font-face {font-family:Verdana; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:536871559 0 0 0 415 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} p {mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} address {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; font-style:italic;} span.EmailStyle19 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial; mso-ascii-font-family:Arial; mso-hansi-font-family:Arial; mso-bidi-font-family:Arial; color:navy;} span.SpellE {mso-style-name:""; mso-spl-e:yes;} span.GramE {mso-style-name:""; mso-gram-e:yes;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--> </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue style='tab-interval:.5in'> <div class=Section1> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I've commuted across the </span></font><st1:place><st1:PlaceName><span class=SpellE><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Sellwood</span></font></span></st1:PlaceName><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'> </span></font><st1:PlaceType><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bridge</span></font></st1:PlaceType></st1:place><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'> for 7 years. Formerly, there <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>were</span></i> Bikes Walk signs, and I'm not even sure when they disappeared. It's interesting that there will be again, but I can count on one hand the number of bikers I actually saw walking when the signs were up. Similarly, I can count on the other the even slightly irritable encounters I've had with walkers or riders on the bridge. Most people who use the bridge regularly realize the difficulties of the walkway, and most deal with it in relative good faith. I'm not sure regulation and traffic control widgets are needed, though a better path and roadway would be nice. The inevitable long-term closure of the bridge for that work will not.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I'm a good rider, but I will not use that bridge roadway. I have tried it on occasion and I find it to be extremely dangerous. No shoulders, high curb, bad surface, high speeds, heavy traffic, narrow lanes. Frankly, I think that the police realize that the bridge is a) not ideal; b) a primary E-W commuting route for pedestrians and bikers. I've encountered police while riding on the bridge on numerous occasions and have never received so much as a warning. <span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>The signs make adjudicating <span class=SpellE>ped</span>/bike encounters an easier matter for police and that doesn't seem to me a big deal in this particular case.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Generally, I've found that etiquette is best handled by making way for downhill bike traffic, though I think Scott McMillan's earlier comment pretty much sums it up. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> markjgi-@yahoo.com [mailto:markjgi-@yahoo.com] <br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:17 AM<br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ob-@topica.com<br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [OBRA Chat] Sellwood Bridge Etiquette</span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Sellwood Bridge is controlled by Multnomah County. Laws are enforced on it by Portland Police.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>The biker walk signs were recently put up b/c county counsel (i.e. the we don't wanna get sued department) was concerned that there could/would be a collision on this seriously undersized path.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>I've been thinking about just riding on the road way, which is not my favorite choice, but for a faster rider is not unreasonable.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Think about how this cuts in half the loop which has been created for the recreational riders who can ride the east side and west side bike esplanades, but now must walk across the bridge to connect the two.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Folks who are unhappy with the change to the Sellwood Bridge can write to Matt Larsen, the Multnomah county bike/ped guy. He was in favor of bikers being allowed to ride, but county counsel said no. His email is: </span></font><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:7.5pt; font-family:Verdana'><a href="mailto:matthew.-@co.multnomah.or.us">matthew.-@co.multnomah.or.us</a> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=1 face=Verdana><span style='font-size: 7.5pt;font-family:Verdana'>Mark Ginsberg</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br> <br> <b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>"G. Hill" <nwm-@yahoo.com></span></i></b> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>===========================================================<br> Empower your Team with Remote Access. GoToMyPC Pro <br> provides your organization with instant remote access to <br> email,files, applications and network resources in real <br> time. FREE TRIAL:<br> http://click.topica.com/caab6auaVxiDpa2k2qEa/ ExpertCity<br> ===========================================================<br> <br> It's against the law to ride your bike on the sidewalk of the Sellwood<br> Bridge. It is posted at the bridge by Portland Police that you have to<br> walk you bike across.<br> <br> <br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: MARTEL,MATT (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:matt_m-@hp.com] <br> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 8:52 AM<br> To: 'nate-@hotmail.com'; ob-@topica.com<br> Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Sellwood Bridge Etiquette<br> <br> ===========================================================<br> Graduate in less than 13 months with AIU's Online virtual <br> campus. Classrooms and student service as close as your <br> computer. Highly accredited, study anytime - anywhere.<br> http://click.topica.com/caab6anaVxiDpa7W2q8a/ AIU<br> ===========================================================<br> <br> <br> <br> I think you are allowed to push them in the river! :)<br> <br> <br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: nate-@hotmail.com [mailto:nate-@hotmail.com] <br> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 8:14 AM<br> To: ob-@topica.com<br> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Sellwood Bridge Etiquette<br> <br> <br> ===========================================================<br> Sign up to get FREE information from leading colleges!<br> Compare degrees, admissions, financial aid and more.<br> Study your career education options at <br> Collegeinformation.info. <br> http://click.topica.com/caab8K7aVxiDpa5fErIa/ College Info<br> ===========================================================<br> <br> <br> What is the etiquette when you encounter another cyclist while crossing <br> the Sellwood bridge using the sidewalk? I've always thought that the <br> cyclist who has already crested the middle of the bridge (regardless of <br> direction) and is heading down has the right of way and the uphill <br> cyclist should slow/stop and move as close to the rail as possible. What<br> <br> do you think? Is there a written or an unwritten rule?<br> <br> Nate<br> <br> ===========================================================<br> Empower your Team with Remote Access. GoToMyPC Pro <br> provides your organization with instant remote access to <br> email,files, applications and network resources in real <br> time. FREE TRIAL:<br> http://click.topica.com/caab6auaVxiDpa5fErIf/ ExpertCity<br> ===========================================================<br> <br> To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.<br> To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org<br> To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com<br> <br> ===========================================================<br> Let University of Phoenix make 2004 your year. Evening, <br> weekend or FlexNetR classes - over 130 locations. Look <br> into our programs and get the degree that gets you going!<br> http://click.topica.com/caab6aBaVxiDpa7W2q8f/ UOP<br> ===========================================================<br> <br> <br> <br> To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.<br> To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org<br> To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com<br> <br> ===========================================================<br> $6.95 .com Domain Name Sale! <br> Limited Time! ICANN Accredited GoDaddy! <br> http://click.topica.com/caab8LhaVxiDpa2k2qEf/ GoDaddy<br> ===========================================================<br> <br> To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.<br> To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org<br> To unsubscribe send to <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div> <address style='margin-left:.5in'><i><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Mark J. Ginsberg<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></address> <address style='margin-left:.5in'><i><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Attorney At Law<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></address> <address style='margin-left:.5in'><i><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>1001 SW 5th Ave., Ste. 1900<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></address> <address style='margin-left:.5in'><i><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Portland, OR 97204<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></address> <address style='margin-left:.5in'><i><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>(503) 542-3000<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></address> <address style='margin-left:.5in'><i><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Fax (503) 295-3720 <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></address> <address style='margin-left:.5in'><i><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><a href="mailto:markjgi-@yahoo.com">markjgi-@yahoo.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></address> <address style='margin-left:.5in'><i><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></address> </div> </div> </blockquote> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=1 width="100%" align=center> </span></font></div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Do you Yahoo!?<br> <a href="http://pa.yahoo.com/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/hotjobs/hotjobs_mail_signature_footer_textlink/evt=23983/*http:/hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover">Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! 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